The Personal Legend

[Samerron]

It's what you have always wanted to accomplish. Everyone, when they are young, knows what their Personal Legend is.

It is what The King of Salem told the kid...
I believe that almost everyone would understand this sentence. Every human at one point in his childhood has his dreams and thoughts, even about himself or about others or how the world should be, something he desire to reach or accomplish. Hence, I believe this is what Paulo means and which is the main message of the novel.

The issue is not about Personal Legend, but when people forget about their Personal Legend and get busy with the mundane life; being boring life everyone around and having nothing unique to achieve in their lifetime.

Tell me what do you think, so then to move to the next part:

...there is one great truth on this planet: whoever you are, or whatever it is that you do, when you really want something, it's because that desire originated in the soul of the universe. It's your mission on earth.

Soul of the universe...hmmm… what do you think he means by that?

[Moath_H]

"It's a book that says the same thing almost all the other books in the world say," continued the old man. "It describes peoples inability to choose their own Personal Legends. And it ends up saying that everyone believes the worlds greatest lie."

"What's the worlds greatest lie?" the boy asked, completely surprised.

"It's this: that at a certain point in our lives, we lose control of what's happening to us, and our lives become controlled by fate. That's the world's greatest lie."

I think this statement strongly argues the free will vs. determinism debate. The king explains that at certain points, we feel to lose control over our free will, and at the same time encourages free will on the same breath. Yet another one of the book's resounding themes is "Maktub", which we know means "written" as in "written and determined" for us.

Discuss.

[Samerron]

For me I don't see much of free will vs. determinism as a philosophical issue, but rather more related to a psychological issue. What he is basically trying to say is that most people at some point in their life forget about the internal ambitious force that bring out the energy. It is this energy that guide them to their dreams... but rather people are giving up to the surrounding environment and circumstances, leaving them drifting anywhere the tides take them.

Another thing, I think the solution he is presenting in the idea of personal legend is a clear one, nevertheless free will vs. determinist is a complicated paradox (though I would be glad to discuss it in another thread)

I guess fate is referred to external factors, which you can't control but at the same time you can try not to control you or your path towards your personal legend. I'm not sure of this, but I also guess that fate and what is written are two different things. What is "maktub" is definitely gonna affect you and change the path of your life, but fate does not necessary need to change your life. But indeed what is meant by "maktub" it means it is determined... what do you think?

[Moath_H]

For me I don't see much of free will vs. determinism as a philosophical issue, but rather more related to a psychological issue. What he is basically trying to say is that most people at some point in their life forget about the internal ambitious force that bring out the energy. It is this energy that guide them to their dreams... but rather people are giving up to the surrounding environment and circumstances, leaving them drifting anywhere the tides take them.

You raise an excellent point, and I somewhat agree. It is a philosophical and a psychological issue. In fact, I'd personally go as far as to say that it is philosophically determined in part from individual psychological factors: it depends on the interpretation of our own actions, what circumstances we believe are in control of them (or not), and our own state of mind shaped around the concept of "free will vs. determinism". But one who feels like (s)he has a grasp on his/her life might claim that it was fate that brought him/her to his/her destiny. Either way, when people believe they are driven by ambition, they don't let "fate" control them or what they do. As a result of that psychological drive, or lack thereof, we tend to formulate our own philosophical conclusions about it... but like I said, psychology contributes in part to that philosophy.

Another thing, I think the solution he is presenting in the idea of personal legend is a clear one, nevertheless free will vs. determinist is a complicated paradox (though I would be glad to discuss it in another thread)

That they seek control over their destinies?

I guess fate is referred to external factors, which you can't control but at the same time you can try not to control you or your path towards your personal legend. I'm not sure of this, but I also guess that fate and what is written are two different things. What is "maktub" is definitely gonna affect you and change the path of your life, but fate does not necessary need to change your life. But indeed what is meant by "maktub" it means it is determined... what do you think?

I think I understand what you're saying. So going by your definitions, we can choose to make the best out of our fate, but not necessarily out of what is written? Or that fate + our actions in accordance with our fates become what is written?

[Samerron]

Another thing, I think the solution he is presenting in the idea of personal legend is a clear one, nevertheless free will vs. determinist is a complicated paradox (though I would be glad to discuss it in another thread)

That they seek control over their destinies?

Yes; to take control.

Btw, note that I merged two topics, so don't get surprized from where did the first post come...lol.

I'll reply to the rest later on...

[Samerron]

For me I don't see much of free will vs. determinism as a philosophical issue, but rather more related to a psychological issue. What he is basically trying to say is that most people at some point in their life forget about the internal ambitious force that bring out the energy. It is this energy that guide them to their dreams... but rather people are giving up to the surrounding environment and circumstances, leaving them drifting anywhere the tides take them.

You raise an excellent point, and I somewhat agree. It is a philosophical and a psychological issue. In fact, I'd personally go as far as to say that it is philosophically determined in part from individual psychological factors: it depends on the interpretation of our own actions, what circumstances we believe are in control of them (or not), and our own state of mind shaped around the concept of "free will vs. determinism". But one who feels like (s)he has a grasp on his/her life might claim that it was fate that brought him/her to his/her destiny. Either way, when people believe they are driven by ambition, they don't let "fate" control them or what they do. As a result of that psychological drive, or lack thereof, we tend to formulate our own philosophical conclusions about it... but like I said, psychology contributes in part to that philosophy.

So, you see it as a mixture between both philosophy and psychology. Well, what I currently think of it (currently, since my ideas & theories might change by time) is that the whole understanding & debate of free will vs. determinism can be divided into two aspects. One which is pure, or let us say mostly philosophical and the other is mostly psychological.

The Philosophical Part
We would be understanding the laws of the universe and the metaphysical relation between the cause and effect and how will it is applied in the universe we are living in.

The Psychological Part
Basically it will be tacking the human mind & the social reaction towards the idea of freewill & determinism. I believe regardless of the philosophical implications, the human mind should always believe that we are free agents and work accordingly. We can't be otherwise!

I guess we might open up a new thread/topic to continue the discussion if you wish so...what do you think?

[Moath_H]

So, you see it as a mixture between both philosophy and psychology. Well, what I currently think of it (currently, since my ideas & theories might change by time) is that the whole understanding & debate of free will vs. determinism can be divided into two aspects. One which is pure, or let us say mostly philosophical and the other is mostly psychological.

The Philosophical Part
We would be understanding the laws of the universe and the metaphysical relation between the cause and effect and how will it is applied in the universe we are living in.

Or lack of metaphysical relation between cause and effect, depending on one's beliefs.

The Psychological Part
Basically it will be tacking the human mind & the social reaction towards the idea of freewill & determinism. I believe regardless of the philosophical implications, the human mind should always believe that we are free agents and work accordingly. We can't be otherwise!

I agree with regards to the free agent aspect, but there are times when even we don't feel we are in control, and let fate alone decide our destiny as opposed to our own actions.

I guess we might open up a new thread/topic to continue the discussion if you wish so...what do you think?

Yeah, sure. Let's open a new thread. But as to the OP:

Soul of the universe...hmmm… what do you think he means by that?

Good question. I'm thinking survival. Think of any job, career, occupation, or identity that people assume in their lives, and you'll find that all contribute equipotentially to survival of the human race, the maintenance of our living space, and the enhancement and embetterment of our living standards. Your "mission on Earth" is therefore the desire to be part of that soul of the Universe. Dreams, goals, and ambitions are only your personal motivations that you constructed or derived to leave your footprint, so to speak.

But with regards to this comment,

The issue is not about Personal Legend, but when people forget about their Personal Legend and get busy with the mundane life; being boring life everyone around and having nothing unique to achieve in their lifetime.

I agree more or less. Psychologically, it doesn't make sense to be one of a million and specialize in only one goal or routine set. There isn't enough excitement in such mundane existence, and having something in you (or a set of qualities) that make you stand out can stabilize your existence, and offer you a sort of release.

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